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Effect Veiler vs Effects in the End Phase

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shyam513

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PostSubject: Effect Veiler vs Effects in the End Phase Effect Veiler vs Effects in the End Phase EmptySun Sep 22, 2013 9:53 pm#1

End Phase effects versus Effect Veiler


One thing a lot of players have had trouble with, in my experience online, on Duelling Network, and in real life, where I’ve played and judged at high levels, is the idea behind certain temporary effect negators, such as the aforementioned Effect Veiler when they come into conflict with effects that trigger during the end phase. For those who do not understand the problem caused, Veiler and some others like it negate effects “Until the end phase”, which leads to a problem – do they negate effects which trigger specifically in the end phase?


Perhaps the best example of End Phase effects are that of most “Lightsworn” monsters, which decree that the player will “mill X cards during the End Phase”, X being a variable depending on the card. For clarity, this is known as a trigger effect – it activates in response to a certain “trigger” being met – in this case, the turn reaching its End Phase. More importantly, however, is the fact that this is a mandatory effect. The duellist has no choice as to whether or not they wish to activate it – they have to – a reason why deck-out is a distinct threat for “Lightsworn” users. To understand whether Effect Veiler will negate such an effect, we must look at the way effects during the End Phase can be activated and resolve. In the following breakdown of the End Phase, Player A is the turn player, and controller of the “Lightsworn” monster, and Player B is the non-turn player, and the controller of “Effect Veiler.”

Player A Enters his End Phase.

1.    
Player A can decide to activate any Mandatory or Optional effects that activate during the end phase, such as the “Lightsworn” Monster on the field at this time, or he can pass priority to his opponent.

2.     
If Player A passes, Player B now can chose to resolve the effect of Effect Veiler if he so wishes, meaning the “Lightsworn” effect will no longer  be negated, or he can pass back to Player A, leaving Effect Veiler’s effect still active, with the effect of the “Lightsworn” still being negated.


3.     
If Player A and B have both passed priority, to prevent an infinite loop of priority being passed back and forth, Player A now MUST activate and resolve any mandatory effects in place that would activate during the end phase. If  player A has not activated their “Lightsworn” effect at step 1, they now must activate it and resolve it, returning us to step 1, or 3, as may be.

4.     
Player B now MUST resolve any mandatory effects, once Player A has, and it is at this time that Player B, if they have not already allowed Effect Veiler to stop affecting the monster at Step 2, must allow it to resolve and prevent the monster from being negated, returning us to Step 1.


As we can see here, the “Lightsworn” player can choose to use their Lightsworn’s effect at either step 1 or step 3, and player B can end Effect Veiler from affecting the “Lightsworn” at step 2 or 4 – meaning for the most part, Player B can decide whether the “Lightsworn” mills or not.


However, this only covers the mandatory effects. Some effects are optional – the player can decide whether they wish to activate the effect. For an example, examine the below text that belongs to “Bujin Yamato”:

Once Per turn, during your End Phase: You can add 1 "Bujin" monster from your deck to your hand, then send 1 card from your Hand to the Graveyard.


The “can” denotes the optionality of the effect – there is no obligation to activate it if the player does not wish to. However, this optionality gives rise to a pseudo-fifth step in the End Phase, as an action performed causes a return to step 1 in the order above.

5.     
After all Mandatory effects (including Effect Veiler) have been resolved, due to steps 3 and 4, any optional effects still remaining, such as Bujin Yamato, may be activated and resolved
.
As we can see, due to the addition of the pseudo-fifth step, it is now Player A, the controller of the monster, who can essential decide whether the effect resolves. Player A can now decide to use Yamato’s effect at step 1, where it must be negated by Veiler, or at step 5, where Veiler must have ceased to affect Yamato, thereby allowing the effect to resolve.

I hope this explanation has made the End Phase much clearer to you, as well as how cards interact with Effect Veiler during the End Phase, and if you have any questions, feel free to ask.

-Shyam513

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Last edited by shyam513 on Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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LoudFist

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PostSubject: Re: Effect Veiler vs Effects in the End Phase Effect Veiler vs Effects in the End Phase EmptySun Sep 22, 2013 11:08 pm#2

Thanks for the info it was easily understood and really helpful.
One question tho, if player A has two trigger effects that are negated by veilers, e.g a Lightsworn Lyla and wind-up zenmaines. Can he pass the zenmaines without the Lyla? or are his options limited to either passing the mandatory effects or activating them?
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PostSubject: Re: Effect Veiler vs Effects in the End Phase Effect Veiler vs Effects in the End Phase EmptySun Sep 22, 2013 11:26 pm#3

@Loudfist wrote:
Thanks for the info it was easily understood and really helpful.
One question tho, if player A has two trigger effects that are negated by veilers, e.g a Lightsworn Lyla and wind-up zenmaines. Can he pass the zenmaines without the Lyla? or are his options limited to either passing the mandatory effects or activating them?
Conduct the End Phase properly. If Player A passes right to act to Player B, who passes back, Player A must resolve either Lyla or Zenmaines, after which we move to any responses to the resolution of that effect, after which we return to the point in which the turn player has the right to resolve or end an effect.

I will refer you to this chart for more detailed analysis: 

Effect Veiler vs Effects in the End Phase LYhOT

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